User talk:Leos Friend
Song of Eric
[edit]Hi Leos friend. I think your additions were fine and that it was improper to just revert you. Personally believe in the theory that the song of Eric is based on the prosaic chronicle. If your interested in the information it contains, you could have a look at an even better old source: Chronicon Lethrense. It was one of the sources on which the prosaic chronicle was based and it contains something you may find interesting concerning the origins of the Song of Eric. Best,--Berig 18:49, 12 September 2007 (UTC)
- Hello. Thanks for your answer and the links to the Lejre Chronicle. I didn't find anything in it concerning the Eric's song. Can you explain a bit, and also, if you have time, why you think that the song is based on the Swedish (prosaic) Chronicle?
- I have started to read the Swedish Chronicle, and my thoughts this far is that it (partly) may be a domestic parallell to the Ynglingasaga, because it can't have been copied from Snorre as it varies here and there. Still it seems to be based on the same historical events. So, I think parts of it must be very old and representing perhaps those original stories which the Ynglingatal is based upon.
- About the song, I don't think it talks about Berig. Jordanes doesn't say that Berig was a king over anyone else than those who emigrated with him. So this Eric could be another person. Well, that's just me speculating.
- By the way, I like your articles a lot, and think you should be careful so they won't be destroyed by other users. /Leos Friend 21:47, 12 September 2007 (UTC)
- I am glad that you like my articles. Concerning the Chronicon Lethrense you will unfortunately not find the relevant information in Tunstall's translated excerpt. The CL tells that king Ypper of Uppsala (called "Urbar" in the Swedish chronicle) had three sons: Dan, Nor and Østen. Dan became the king of Denmark and Nor the king of Norway while Østen ruled Sweden. Unfortunately, the early Gothicismus tried to conflate the Geats with the Swedes through the logic that if the Geats were the same as the Goths, then the Goths would be Swedes if Geats and Swedes were synonymous. Consequently the Swedish chronicle made the Geats, the Goths and the Swedes into the same nation. Later the Song of Eric presented the migration of king Dan from Uppsala to Denmark as a Geatish (i.e. "Gothic") migration into Denmark (and not a migration of king Dan from Uppsala as in the original version of the CL). So, IMHO, it is quite clear that the Song of Eric is based on the Prosaic chronicle and ultimately on the CL.--Berig 17:18, 14 September 2007 (UTC)
- Hello again, Berig. A late thanks for your answer. I newly discovered Carl Säve's book about the Song of Eric, and when I read the translated version (from page 12), it seems to me that while Eric was a Geat, it doesn't tell exactly where Humble (father of Dan) lived. But as he was depicted as evil, this would suggest that he was from Upsala, and that the song really is of Geatish origin. Had it been of Swedish (Svitjod) origin, Humble surely had been depicted as a good ruler. So, if I'm right, the song tells about an early and old rivalry between Geats and Swedes concerning the authority over Denmark.
- /Leos Friend (talk) 04:40, 26 November 2007 (UTC)
- Well, there are many possibilities. If there's anything I have learnt by writing about medieval sources, it's to be careful with making conclusions. The medieval monks and literati who preserved what remains from early Germanic sources were not interested in documenting older traditions intact for posterity, but combined older traditions with their own worldview. This is why Beowulf contains references to the Bible and why the Prose Edda makes the Aesir come from Asia. The best thing to do is to look for good secondary sources and discuss what they think on the primary sources.--Berig (talk) 17:48, 26 November 2007 (UTC)
- /Leos Friend (talk) 04:40, 26 November 2007 (UTC)
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Nephilim
[edit]Hi - I'm afraid I reverted your edits. The first bit about 'growing numbers' would have to have a reliable source, and as I say on the talk page, most of the books are self-published. You could put back something more focussed and precise (eg with a quote, proper inline references with page numbers). dougweller (talk) 06:44, 6 December 2008 (UTC)
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